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LIVE BOLDLY with Sara Schulting Kranz

May 25, 2022

Vanessa Bennett and Dené Logan are two soul sisters and therapists with a shared background in depth psychology. They are avid yoginis, seekers, and mamas. Vanessa specializes in Codependency recovery and Dené in examining the ways we self-abandon. More than anything else, they’re passionate about supporting others in living their most authentic life. Dr. Debi Silver joins us in this episode to discuss betrayal, post-betrayal symptoms, is post-betrayal transformation trust, among captivating other topics.


Hello everyone, Vanessa Bennett and Dené Logan are on today's show. We'll discuss how to maintain complete human wellbeing while in relationship with yourself. This is an extremely important conversation. So grab your diary, lean up against a tree if you're outside, or bring it inside and open a window to get some fresh air and truly absorb this discussion. This is an episode you simply cannot afford to miss.

Let’s delve in!

In this Episode you’ll learn:

 [04:16] Four Grand Canyon retreats coming up

[06:39] Who Vanessa Bennett and Dene Logan are?

 [06:46] what is the psychology of the soul?

 [10:54] A little bit about Vanessa and Dene codependency and self-abandonment work

[11:45] How Vanessa and Dene began their healing work

[14:54] what internal personal space drove Vanessa and Dene to their codependency and self-abandonment work?

[18:12] we are raised to be codependent and attachment will always trump authenticity.

[20:53] about self-abandonment

[23:21]Authentic love is not transactional.

[25:03] what nonviolent communication is?

[28:09] How to know if you are freaking codependent.

[31:10] How to manage stepping into relationship with someone while staying healthy and the balance

[35:07] how do you go from codependence to now having interdependence

[41:46] how healing returns you to being a child or who you were before the world

[45:55] the importance of play in therapy

[56:59] Vanessa and Dene what is in their soul on fire right now?

[01:01:45] Retreats that Vanessa and Dene run



  • “When we're little all of us have two basic needs and one need is attachment. And so we need to attach to our caregivers, we need to have that sense of safety. The other need is authenticity. Right. But attachment will always trump authenticity.” [00:32]
  • “And being our most authentic self, the person that we are meant to be in this lifetime, is what we are really passionate about doing now” [12:23]
  • “Coming into our body was our gateway to our own healing, and really a doorway into kind of deeper exploration of self” [13:05]
  • “There’s so much about the way that we as a society are programmed to function that is extremely codependent, and really teaches us very young to abandon our authentic self.” [17:34]
  • “So much of the way I grew up was sort of like morphing into who I thought people needed me to be in order to be accepted in order to be loved.” [18:35]
  • “When I am not showing up authentically, when I am filling up your cup, but I'm feeling a deep sense of resentment about the fact that I'm filling it up, that's actually not me loving you, out of a place of authentic love. That is me loving you out of a place of fear.” [22:14]
  • A lot of codependency is kind of steeped in this very, like murdery victim type mentality. And so I do think in the beginning, especially, it's hard to actually separate.” [23:36]
  • All of us have the ability to self soothe. And relationships are a tool in our toolkit, just like you know; your therapist is a tool in your toolkit, just like going on a long walk is a tool in your toolkit, just like yoga is a tool in your toolkit. [36:48]
  • If I'm looking for another person to be my parent, there's not a lot of attraction there over time. So that's my job to do for me. And that doesn't mean you know, I'm not leaning on my partner for support and connection, it just means I'm not looking for them to parent me..” [40:41]
  • “for me, it's all of the things that we've talked about that I believe we're living through a moment in history, where paradigms and structures are falling to the ground that have been long overdue to fall, we're sort of you know, entering the Aquarian Age, for those of you who are aware of astrology and know what that means.” [57:00]
  • “For the first time of my life, I feel like I'm in a place with, like in relationship to myself, where I can more easily titrate between being connected and be autonomous, and not feel engulfed and not feel disconnected, like either or, I think for so much of my life.” [58:54]


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